Great onboard footage from last few laps of Spa

[Ahmad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNN5W_B-Zk

[Webber]

Good footage, thanks. It does seem alot like Hamilton did infact get nudged by Raikkonen, even though he was well wide at the corner. Also looks like he momentarily lifted off the accelerator just after he got off the corner and that's how Kimi got the lead. I think i'll download this before the FIA get it taken off Youtube - just like the Hamilton-Webber-Vettel incident in Fuji last year.

[f15active]

The FIA don't remove these videos from youtube. They are the property of Bernie's Formula One Management (FOM) and they will request for it to be removed.

It isn't just limited to TV footage either. I had my own personally recorded video (my own video camera from the Fangio stand) from the 2007 Australian Grand Prix removed from youtube at the request of the FOM not too long ago.

[Pati3nce]

Amazing....

[Brado23]

lol. so much for all the people that said hamilton was able to pass as he got a tow from raikkonen up the straight... he wasn't in his slipstream at any time (except for the millisecond that they crossed which wouldn't have made any difference).

great vid though. it's amazing that lewis didn't end up in kimi's ass going into the chicane. super fast reflexes!

[EAO_CrystaLM]

look hamilton was given penality cause the formula 1 board is corrupt there not thinking about hamilton cause he is new & can win a championship many times over down the track. there thinking about keeping this championship close... simple as that

[Allyc4t]

Hamilton cut the chicane, gained an OBVIOUS advantage and got a penalty.

Justice served b#@%*

[Brado23]

you obviously didn't see how much room raikkonen left him on the inside. it was hit raik or cut the chicane

[JesterF1]

i thought the last few laps were a perfect example of how to drive aggressively without causing incident. there was line changing, off track excursions, squeezing - it was all happening, and not one touch ... thats what you get when two great drivers battle for the win

[Allyc4t]

you obviously didn't see how much room raikkonen left him on the inside. it was hit raik or cut the chicane

could've lifted off maybe?.....

[Ahmad]

When I first saw it, it didn't enter my mind that Hamilton would get a penalty, I thought he out-played him at the first corner. But I can understand why he was given the penalty, because if he didn't cut the chicane he wouldn't of been that close to him going into la source and wouldn't of been able to make a move up the inside.

Japan 2005


Alonso had some dramas as he lost ground going off in the chicane and dirtying his tyres on the 8th lap as he passed Klien. He duly let the Austrian back through then immediately re-passed him into Turn 1. However, stewards decided that the Spaniard had still gained an advantage and he was forced to slow, let the Red Bull back through and then finally re-pass for good.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2005/10/3701.html

I still don't think he should of been given a penalty, simply because Kimi got back in front of him later into the lap.

[Webber]

could've lifted off maybe?.....

He did, if you listen carefully as he comes off the chicane (or slightly after, i can't be bothered loading it up again). Not trying to continue the argument which has already been sparked, but, Hamilton would have obviously gained a speed advantage by driving over the chicane - yet he was 6km/h slower crossing the line - if he hadn't let off, this couldn't be possible. In such a short period of time, even if the Mercedes engine was more powerful (not actually too sure which is better. Teams are so close it's hard to tell from the ITV telecast), it would have to be considerably more powerful to be able to gain 6km/h in such a short period of time.

Even though i don't exactly support him since his move to Ferrari, i do hope they don't give up on him for the season. How a team could support a driver like Massa over Raikkonen when there's still a potential 50 points on the board i just don't understand. I'd rather see Schumacher in his 2002 (on the podium every race, most of them for first) and 2004 (winning 12 of the first 13 races of the year) form back in F1 than Massa taking the title. He's more consistant than in the past, but he still seems too particular about the track he gets good results on, the conditions, and who he's versing. His recent comments on the ITV website about Hamilton's move gave me the impression he believe's he's the best and could have done better. As you can see, i'm quite obviously his number one fan.

[Ahmad]

i thought the last few laps were a perfect example of how to drive aggressively without causing incident. there was line changing, off track excursions, squeezing - it was all happening, and not one touch ... thats what you get when two great drivers battle for the win

I'm assuming you're talking about Fuji last year..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qjQiOJpHBM

:)

[EAO_CrystaLM]

webber shoulda won fuji that yr , bloody toro roso car took him out under saftey car omg

[Webber]

webber shoulda won fuji that yr , bloody toro roso car took him out under saftey car omg

Oh well. Although i wasn't exactly extatic with joy that he was taken out, i still have the firm belief that it will come one day. In 2005 and 2006 he had many near misses, but lost out because of mechanical problems. Design him a good car, Adrian Newey, and it will happen in the end.

[Allyc4t]

You can thank Hamilton again for some magnificent driving under the SC for that..... would fit right in, in the dev league

[Webber]

You can thank Hamilton again for some magnificent driving under the SC for that..... would fit right in, in the dev league

Lewis Hamilton fan number one?

[Allyc4t]

Lewis Hamilton fan number one?

Thats not even worth commenting on....

[Milky]

but you did anyway.

[Brado23]

Just on that comment about Alonso having to let klien back past....

For those that dont know already, as soon as the pass happened McLaren were on the radio to the stewards to check if Lewis' pass was fair and they said yes. McLaren were going to give up the position again if the stewards said otherwise (same as what Alonso had to in that previous incident) but didn't as a result of that conversation. Then they go and get penalised afterwards. Not too fair is it!!!!!

They should win the appeal on the basis of that alone if they have it recorded, but time will tell.

And Ahmad, yes you're right it is pathetic he still was penalised considering Raik took the lead again that lap to negate the pass anyway.

Lots of reasons.... no common sense from the FIA once again.

End of whinge.

[JesterF1]

if the FIA is Ferrari biased, why are the teams forced to use McLaren electronics?

end communication :tape:

:playball:

[Ahmad]

For those that dont know already, as soon as the pass happened McLaren were on the radio to the stewards to check if Lewis' pass was fair and they said yes.
Actually, they didn't ask the Stewards, they asked Charlie Whiting so that point is mute.

To add the DRIVERS opinion of the matter, I find myself agreeing with Rosberg:

Q: (Dan Knutson - National Speed Sport News) Could I ask the other four drivers what they thought about that incident and Kimi, and as a follow-up, do you think you and other drivers might be afraid to fight for a position now that you might get a penalty?

Giancarlo Fisichella: I have just seen pictures, so it is difficult for me to say whether what happened was right or not. For sure, maybe, he took a small advantage, that's why he had the possibility, as Felipe said, to overtake him again in braking for turn one. But obviously, a 25s penalty was quite a strong penalty. As for the second question: when we get in the car and we're fighting to overtake a car, we don't think about that. We just try to do our best. Obviously we know if we cut a chicane or we take an advantage we need to back off and give the position back.

Sebastien Bourdais: Yes, I think the rules are very clear. Maybe the penalty was a bit hard, but I think he's made the same mistake twice: he's done it in Magny-Cours and he's done it again in Spa. I don't really understand why there's been such a mess around it. There's a rule book and everybody has to obey the same thing. The penalty is really rough but in the end it's up to you to give the position back or not. Pretty straightforward.

Nico Rosberg: Yeah, I definitely agree, because he did get an advantage, because he wouldn't have been that close behind Kimi had he not cut the chicane. But then again, I also think the penalty was a bit harsh as that did not have such a big effect on the actual race result in the end.

Jarno Trulli: Well, I agree completely with my colleagues. The penalty was quite big but I'm not a steward and I cannot decide what kind of penalty should be given. But on the other hand, it was very clear that he got an advantage out of it, so that's where it is. The rules are very clear. If you cut the chicane and you get an advantage, you just have to drop back and give back the position and in Lewis's case he shouldn't have attacked straight away at the next corner; that was it. On the other hand, with this new chicane, there is a lot of run-off, it gives you more chance to attack because in the case of a mistake, you wouldn't end up in a wall or in the gravel. If it was the case of Lewis in Spa, he wouldn't have gone much further than that. We have more chances to overtake.

Sebastien Bourdais: I think it was very clear and I agree as well. You have to be responsible for what you decide to do, and in this particular case, if you do gain an advantage like I said, you just give it back and make sure that you don't expose yourself to penalties. I think it's the easiest way to handle it. In my previous experience, my previous life in the States, it was actually a common thing. The stewards would not take action if you gave the position back, so I think it's only fair.

Nico Rosberg: I agree and I don't think it's going to stop us from trying to attack, definitely.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8358.html

[Brado23]

if the FIA is Ferrari biased, why are the teams forced to use McLaren electronics?

end communication :tape:

:playball:

Every team had the opportunity to do the work and apparently McLaren was the only team interested.

[JesterF1]

if the FIA is Ferrari biased, why were McLaren given a better garage position at some races after being DQ'd and classified last in the constructors championship in the previous season?

:bounce:

[Brado23]

What everyone is failing to see is that the track was wet and Raikkonen was braking heaps earlier than he would have been in the dry... look at how early he braked coming into the final chicane.

In the dry, it is true that Hamilton wouldn't have been able to pass him into that corner under normal circumstances. However, as shown on a few occasions now, Hamilton is better than Kimi in the wet and probably every other driver in the field too with his combination of car and outright skill.

If Hamilton followed Kimi normally through the chicane he still would have outbroke Raikkonen into turn 1 as he is much better under brakes in those sort of semi-wet/wet situations.

[Allyc4t]

If Hamilton followed Kimi normally through the chicane he still would have outbroke Raikkonen into turn 1 as he is much better under brakes in those sort of semi-wet/wet situations.

But he decided to cut the chicane, gain an advantage and a penalty while he was at it

[JesterF1]

im not failing to see that ... im just putting the ferrari bias crap to rest :)

hamilton's wet weather advantage comes from his aggressive driving style - he is able to retain more heat in his tyres, but as we have seen, it penalises him in the dry.

"If Hamilton followed Kimi normally through the chicane ... "

"If" is the most over-used word in Formula 1 :flypig:

[Brado23]

Anyway, with all of the above said, it's good to see that we all agree Hamilton should have the penalty revoked due to poor decision making and bias on the part of the FIA and that we're all behind him to win the world championship this year :bounce: lmao

[P1MM_C_98]

if the FIA is Ferrari biased, why were McLaren given a better garage position at some races after being DQ'd and classified last in the constructors championship in the previous season?

:bounce:
FOM is incharge of that not FIA:wave:

as for the alonso klein incident, Fernando's quote points to the fia ****ing up again.

"When I passed Klien, the FIA told the team that I had to let him pass because I had cut the chicane, so I slowed down and lost a lot of time. But after letting him pass, the team told me that the FIA had changed his mind and that it wasn't necesary to let him pass, but I told them it was too late."

[JesterF1]

FOM is incharge of that not FIA:wave:

the FIA are still supposed to enforce the rules :ranger:

[Milky]

Anyway, with all of the above said, it's good to see that we all agree Hamilton should have the penalty revoked due to poor decision making and bias on the part of the FIA and that we're all behind him to win the world championship this year :bounce: lmao

Yeah this topic is brimming with support.

[vietnow]

In the dry, it is true that Hamilton wouldn't have been able to pass him into that corner under normal circumstances. However, as shown on a few occasions now, Hamilton is better than Kimi in the wet and probably every other driver in the field too with his combination of car and outright skill.

He did pretty well to qualify 15th yesterday.

[Ahmad]

LOL plus you gotta love "I'll never get overtaken on the outside again" .. Spa Lap 2 - overtaken on the outside.

[Milky]

what he should have said was "I hope I will never get overtaken on the outside again"