Setups - hardly worth it?

[Wally]

I've been playing with Motec (in the Meganes), trying different setups and seeing what changes in the Motec graphs. And the answer is: not much. You can see the effects of gear ratio, brake balance, tyre pressure and camber. The rest does bugger all. Maybe it's just the Megane mod, maybe it's rfactor. I changed springs from full hard to full soft, dampers from full hard to full soft, ARB from detached to full hard, and my lap times hardly changed and the Motec graphs hardly changed.

So setups, apart from the gear ratio, brake balance, tyre pressure and camber, seem to be a big con in rfactor (or maybe ISI). I noticed the same thing once in Race07. Setup changes in the other settings made bugger all difference. I even tried to make the car undriveable with things like positive camber and it felt no different at all.

If I saw any changes in lap times, it was only because of how I was driving, hitting apexes, getting the throttle down earlier etc.

Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed this too?

[Paul Keeghan]

I think it maybe mod specific.

Because i can defiantly feel a difference in historix and tcl with a soft or hard rear.

lap times might have not changed but driving style sure did.

[Crash]

As chop said, I'm also convinced it's mod dependant

In historics I can gain or lose 2s a lap playing with sets (also a sign I need the car to suit my style rather than having the skill to change my style to suit the car :fear:), whereas I found with TCL its more like maybe gaining or losing 0.25s if I was lucky.. certainly driving better gained much more.

Wiith the megane @ mid ohio, I kept changing the setup and going a bit quicker each time.. but started getting suspicious when I reversed the changes and still went a bit quicker lol... didn't take me long to realise it was just practice causing me to go quicker. I don't think setup makes much difference at all in the meganes.

[Bird]

Even in GTL setup meant some difference ( and was mostly correct too )
But I think rather than trying to find it in motec, drive and see if you feel the difference.
A few clicks of arb, spring, or damper change should mean a very prominent change in car behaviour. If it isn't - then it's probably not working.

[yokelhama]

I think the Meganes rely heavily on aero grip so perhaps if you change the wing settings that'll make a difference?

[gawaterman]

I definitely noticed the setup makes a difference in HistoricX. I could spend ages doing laps on an existing setup to end up "hitting the wall" times wise. Then someone (rpo,bj,Matt) would send me a setup and within 2 laps I would drop laptimes by around a second.

[Wally]

Yeah, I agree with you all thinking about it. The meganes just don't respond at all to springs/dampers/rollbars. It must be the mod. I might try the same exercise in Historics and see what's what, because you're right, the cars definitely feel different with setup changes there.

I suppose the Meganes mod might not allow much variation between hard and soft springs in terms of suspension travel and so on, so the difference might be negligible.


But I think rather than trying to find it in motec, drive and see if you feel the difference.
I know what you mean, but this was more an exercise in trying to understand motec - to see how the difference in suspension settings showed up in the charts.


I think the Meganes rely heavily on aero grip so perhaps if you change the wing settings that'll make a difference?
Yes, when I changed the wing to increase downforce, I did slow down.


Wiith the megane @ mid ohio, I kept changing the setup and going a bit quicker each time.. but started getting suspicious when I reversed the changes and still went a bit quicker lol... didn't take me long to realise it was just practice causing me to go quicker. I don't think setup makes much difference at all in the meganes. Yeah, that's exactly what I found!

[Crash]

Thinking about it a bit further, springs for example won't really make a car "faster". It doesn't add horsepower, reduce weight, angle the tyres for cornering (like camber) or anything like that.. it's just softer or firmer.

Springs, as I understand it should be stiff enough to stop the suspension bottoming out, and also stiff enoough for the car to response to your liking, but not so stiff that the car "skips" over bumps in the road and loses traction

Too soft - car might bottom out / be slow to respond

too stiff - car might lose traction on bumpy surface / be quick to respond (maybe too quick and lose the rear on turn-in for example)

So a bad spring setting "may" cost you some lap time, but more likely make the car a bit "trickier" to drive but an optimum setting won't suddenly gain you 1s a lap :ohwell:


Try a couple of different cars from the historics mod and set the springs all soft then all hard, and focus on how quickly the car responds to turn-in on various speed corners... then try it hardest front, and softest rear and the swap it around .. I'm sure you'll feel the differences, and you should see the differences in motec as well ;)

Edit: Too slow typing :ohwell: lol

[Wally]

So a bad spring setting "may" cost you some lap time, but more likely make the car a bit "trickier" to drive but an optimum setting won't suddenly gain you 1s a lap :ohwell:
I would think that you could change the relative grip at the front or back by changing springs relative to the other end of the car, so that could gain you some time.

I reckon a Motec section would be good to have on the forums if there's enough people interested. To share workbooks, compare results etc.

[Bird]

I would think that you could change the relative grip at the front or back by changing springs relative to the other end of the car, so that could gain you some time.

Yes, but that's not what the springs are for in the 1st place, IMHO. The springs should be set to maximise the capabilites of the car on the given track/surface ; to prevent bottoming out, reduce bouncing, that sort of thing. After they are set, you can change the car's behaviour with the other controls.

You can still lose a lot of time with badly set springs tho. More than a second per lap, easily. I'd bet anything on that (in reality, that is, can't comment on the Meganes mod in rF). And the bad springs should be identifiable on MoTec ( but don't ask me how to spot it, I'm not good with motec, I don't have the patience for it, hehe )


very softly remarking; in iRacing messing the springs up can mean a huge difference in most cars. This is not an ad for iR, I've given up on converting you guys, merely a remark. :D )

[Mr Fox]

I notice a change in car behavior with the meganes, not much in tyre temps but more so how well i can get out of the corner better. Unfortunately with no Diff settings in the megane mod you cant get away from the throttle on over steer, but i have noticed you can subdued it slightly through the shocks and spring settings.